Friday, December 4, 2009

Friday Video Post: convince me to have a child...

Instead of moderating the discussion or answering questions, I'm asking a question.

Share stories, provide insight, break down some theology--I'm asking with all sincerity.


If Paul is right, please convince me to find salvation ;)

37 comments:

the BLAH BLAH BLAHger said...

Bianca, can you include the scripture reference? I want to look this up...as a single gal, I need to do some homework on the issue! : ) ~JJ

Bianca said...

Sorry!

It's 1 Tim: 2:15

Blah, blah, blahg you :)

Annie said...

Bianca:
1) if you are even the SLIGHTEST leery of having children, then don't. To have a child takes a full-time commitment and a nearly full-time "pause" on anything outside of that relationship for some time. I'd say roughly 18 years. ;0) I would SO rather someone err on not having a kiddo because they are not sure, than to give it "the old college try" and find out they made a mistake.

B) my understanding (via my study Bible's EXCELLENT teaching) of the text Paul wrotten :0) is that a woman can be "saved" daily through her ability to bear children. In otherwords, as mothers we are reminded everyday of our position in the family (corporately and in our own homes) and can be saved from the desire to dominate our family. BUT all of that saving can only be accomplished through our own attitude. Are we walking in love, self-control, faith? In my opinion, these are all mandatory fruits to be a Mama. And in that, Paul is saying we can be saved -- from ourselves and for God.

Don't know if that helps, but that's my 2 pennies worth! Love ya!

BTW, your kids would be GORGEOUS! Just sayin'...

hmk said...

I also went back and read verses 11 - 14. So I have two answers. I am not a theologian nor am I in the ministry but here goes my interpretations.

Answer 1:
I went back to Genesis 3 where Eve sinned. And God told the serpent
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring [a] and hers; he will crush [b] your head, and you will strike his heel."

And through woman's childbearing we were saved.

Answer 2:
This is a more personal, emotional answer. I've been a Christian since the age of 11, but once I had a child, I truly understood the depth of love God had for me. And my love for my daughters isn't a drop in the bucket to what God has for all His children.

So maybe, through childbirth, when a mother first sees her baby, she understands more about God's love for her, which may in turn lead to salvation.

hmk said...

That was Genesis 3:15 by the way. Meant to write that out.

Thanks for the thought. I am sharing this with my group of friends to discuss.

Mommaloo said...

B, I have a 13 year old and an 8 year old...maybe you should ask grandparents their advice, because in the middle of all the hormones and issues and drama...i'm not sure I could give a compelling argument to bear children. I doubt my abilities as a mom every day. I look at my MIL & FIL and see how they can think back fondly on their kids growing up, but I know that in the middle of it, it didn't seem so great.

I'm not very educated in the Bible so I can't really help you out with the scripture, but I do know that whether you bear the child or adopt...it's about the love and passion you have for that person. I think that there are so many women who cannot have children for one reason or another, but have chosen to adopt. There ability to mother that child is no different that the one that gives birth.

You are an amazing person, and if giving birth isn't something you see in your future, then adopt. Just know that you will be a great mom! You will stumble, you will doubt, and you will still be scared, but also know that you will provide a kind of love that only a mom can.

Whew! that was a long thought, sorry!

Anonymous said...

Honestly I hope not, but I want to be saved in Christ, I am not a theologian or bible teacher... my reason is because I am a woman and I have been marry for quite awhile and for some reason I cannot conceive a child, I made a mistake of commenting this issue with a person at church, big mistake because it seems like all of this person girlfriends know that we cannot get pregnant and every time they see me, they looked at me with a sorry face and it makes me so uncomfortable. Some of them approached me and said we are praying for you. Honestly I want to yell at them to stop praying for it because only my lord knows the reason why we cannot have a child and we have get to the point of acceptance of the Lord decision in our life, so I have to disagree with this verse of the bible... I hope I am not interpreting it bad...if I do please forgive me...

Kayla said...

I think that some people have a heart to have children and others just aren't given that. I have some friends who are married and honestly it was a huge relief to almost everyone they knew when they announced that they never wanted to have children. Not that they're bad people, but seriously it just doesn't seem like they'd be very great parents. Not saying that's your case, just offering an example. Perhaps God WILL lead you to adopt later. Children are a blessing (or so I've been told, heh) and that's the attitude that I'm trying to have when I think about the future. I'm so often stressed and overwhelmed and focused and selfish and that freaks me out when I think about the future and having children. At the same time, in a paradox, it makes me want to have children because I want to experience giving selfless love. I feel like Paul was saying here that expressing a mother's heart toward either our own children or even just other people will save us from ourselves. Our selfish desires and motives. I've known people that have never had children yet "mother" me sometimes when I need advice or to talk and that is such a special time for me because they choose to help.

I just thought of a couple at church, late 30s/early 40s who have never wanted children, yet help take care of children who were taken in by my church's music director and his wife, who are both very busy people and are getting up there in years. They are serving the other couple by helping to bear their burden and if they'd had children of their own, they might not be able to assist in this way.

Don't fall into legalism or fear about this, Bianca. You have a wonderful heart and if God wants you to have children, then He will prepare your heart for them. Do you think it would be better to have children and resent them than to not have children and serve God fully and gladly in another way?

Also, it seems like you have a fear of the actual birthing process itself. My cousins read a book called Supernatural Childbirth and locked into some serious scriptural truths in it. They both had natural deliveries and easy pregnancies. One of them actually said, "Is that it?" when they held up her first baby girl and then with her second child she nearly had him in the car about an hour after the contractions started. God's hand is in everything. Eve was promised painful delivery, and Jesus promised freedom from the curse of the law.

Michelle said...

I had a thought come to mind (and I am not sitting her e with my Bible so forgive me for being vague)...

But in this post you are mentioning the text saying "women will be saved through childbearing."

Interesting.

A few weeks ago you mentioned the text regarding remaining single and how that was considered a higher calling.

I'm sure God isn't saying remain single and bear children out of wedlock... so perhaps there is room for both.

Paul was a spiritual FATHER to Timothy. Is it possible that you are already a spiritual MOTHER to the many teens & women that you speak to?

Is it possible that for me having two biological children brought me back from rebellion against God, taught me compassion & selflessness that I never would have found had I remained single & childless.

Could it be that you are a more fully developed person SPIRITUALLY than i was and therefore don't need to be saved through physical childbearing...?

These are the thoughts running through my head. Again, no bible here in front of my to find a sound theological argument. Just the thoughts of a mother who HAS been saved through childbearing. :)

Anonymous said...

I'm on the same page as w/hmk. As a disclaimer, I first must say that I am not married, nor do I have any children of my own. However, I help in the upbringing of my 15 yr old sister...and I love her as she was my own. I love her sooooooo much that I often wonder if I could love her any more if she was truly "bone of my bone"...For her I'd give up my life, my hopes, my dreams...my everything.

I can honestly say that I never understood mercy, grace, forgiveness, the love of the Father, and the power of prayer until she came into my life. The love I have for her is unconditional, unchanging, and immoveable so much so that I often wonder how much greater is the love of the Father towards her? If I, a broken, battered, twisted, flawed vessel can love so deep how much more He who created her? How much more He that counted the cost & layed His life down for her?

That little girl has brought me to my knees like no other...and I constantly find myself begging God for wisdom & understanding, for Him to set her apart and making her His. It is through her that my faith is tried & tested. It is through her that I am captivated by God's grace and by God's love; through her I marvel at God's enduring kindness and forgiveness….through her I am obligated to walk the “straight & narrow”…through her I am saved.

-Cyn

hmk said...

Agree with Michelle.

Couldn't have said it better Cyn. Just reading your comment made me cry!

Anonymous said...

I like how the Message words this scripture passage. Perhaps this is more along the lines of the true meaning?

1 Timothy 2:15 (The Message)

11-15I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do. They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else. Adam was made first, then Eve; woman was deceived first—our pioneer in sin!—with Adam right on her heels. On the other hand, her childbearing brought about salvation, reversing Eve. But this salvation only comes to those who continue in faith, love, and holiness, gathering it all into maturity. You can depend on this.

Jewelielyn said...

"However, she {and all women} will be saved through the birth of the child, if they lead respectable lives in faith, love, and holiness." The commentary that made the most sense to me, was that Paul was talking about Jesus when he said "the birth of the child." we are all saved by that child's birth, and consequent death. and since it is physically or morally impossible for some women to bear children, i don't think that can be a requirement for salvation :)

on a personal note, i can say that having a child does change you. and i think as christians, it changes us for the better and helps us understand God in a different way. i would die for my daughter, and experiencing love from that perspective changes who i am.

(on a more personal note, childbirth is painful--seriously painful. but so is having your wisdom teeth out. some things, you just gotta do! but don't underestimate the power of these words, said to your future offspring--"i was in labor with you for 28 hours . . . ") :)

Monica said...

Child birth scared me more than anything in this world, for that it was MY desire to adopt however not God’s plans! In my 8th month, I changed my mind and no longer wanted to go through the labor process. So I consulted the Lord with my request and like many times he denied it. Instead he gave me 1 Thessalonians 2: 17 which reads “ Take heed to the ministry which you have received from the Lord that you may fulfill it.”
I didn't understand the depths of John 3:16 till I became a mom. The love you have for a child is something you dont understand till you become one. When I realize how much more God loves me no words could describe it. I couldn't imagine allowing my son to die for sins of other. I wish I had the faith that abraham did with Isaac. To know that God loves me more than I love my son is crazy!
Now how are we saved? Well I am not going to go into theology because I am not that smart. I was taught when you don’t know something talk about what you do know. My walk has never been stronger. The accountability is crazy, I don’t know one mom who has not been ministered through her child. My child is innocent, Joyful, he trust me completely, he has faith that I only want the best for him, and he loves me no matter what. That is what Gods word professes in that we should also be childlike. There have been times when my son looks at me and I see the Lords eyes in those crazy moments.
Being a mom is full time ministry and you know the accountability of being a leader in full time ministry. It is the same in the home. I know one day I will stand before the throne and give an account of how I raised my child to know HIM. How can I show my child the Lord if I don’t know him intimately myself. If I have not I have failed.

D to tha G said...

Does thae passage in 1 Tim 2 mean women will be saved in giving birth? - if so what about the women that die during chilbearing? Also what about God's grace and mercy? Can't be that by these works women can be saved.
The grammar in the original Greek
language reads "she will be saved in THE CHILDBIRTH". As hmk stated it is through childbearing that the Messiah came into the world - via a woman. Tho woman was deceived and transgressed in the garden, the woman race can be saved through the Messiah whom came into the world through woman. The bible does not place the blame of the fall dooming the human race on women and we should not to that either, but instead be thankful to women that through childbearing the Messiah was brought to use.

Every pregnancy is different. I have known some women who suffered greatly and others that had an easy pregnancy. I did not have to carry my 6 yr old daughter but I can say that even as a father is changes you completely. Especially as a single dad it teaches you love, compassion, mercy, lots of patience and self sacrifice. It kinda helps place into perspective how our Heavenly Father see's us in a way - His immense love, deep compassion, endless mercy, longsuffering and His sacrifice for us.

It really will all boil down to God's plans in your life. He will reveal them in His due time and will make it all beautiful in the end.

Name Nazi said...

I have two children ages three and five. They are nineteen months apart. Number two was a surprise and I carried him after finding out that my husband was having affairs and during and after our divorce. Childbearing has been a struggle.

However, I agree with others that because I have children and I understand what it is to give up myself to give to them, I more fully understand how much MORE God loves me, them, and the people in my world that I struggle to love.

In my head, people who don't have children are often (not always) much more selfish and less understanding of faults, less likely to have a "team" approach to tasks or to pitch in and get the job done, less like to sacrifice what they want for what is right, good or easier. This is obviously a generalization, but when I'm looking at a new job or a promotion, I actually consider whether or not my new boss (if a woman) is a mother. I have worked for women that are not parents and struggled because they just don't seem to have the broader understanding of the world and what's really important.

Again, generalizations. This is my perspective.

My children were very definitely THE thing that saved my life (literally) and if you'd like to hear more about my witness there, email me.

Bianca said...

Oh my word.

I'm so overwhelmed by these great answers. You guys are seriously amazing. I love the honesty and candor.

From Mommaloo's honesty about inadequacy to Anonymous' fragility and hurt, to Name Nazi's candor about infidelity--I'm overwhelmed. Cyn you're a great sister, Daniel youe're a great dad, Michelle and Annie and Jewelielyn you are AMAZING mothers. Monica and hmk, your responses were beautiful. I'm so overwhelmed...

I'm praying for every single one of you. For the first time all day... I'm speechless.

Marisa said...

although i am not yet a mom, my take on this verse is more about being made holy. i'm sure you've heard "marriage is not about making you happy, but about making you holy"...i see having children in a similar way. just like your spouse brings insight of sin in your life, your children will reflect your own sin in theirs. do i think women have to have children to be saved? by no means. scripture is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith. but i think that having children can bring about greater refinement in women. not a requirement, but an honor.

Jen Mc. said...

Isn't that such an interesting verse! My commentary gives 3 possible but very diff. explanations (from finding fulfillment as a wife/mama to spiritual salvation to being kept phys. safe through childbearing). He is coming off of his instructions about women submitting quietly, not teaching over men, qualifying these statements b/c of Eve's mess-up at the fall (and presumed weakness as a gender).
I don't know what he meant, exactly- but can I glean anything from it? Maybe my mama status is growing me up spiritually, helping me to act holier and with more self-restraint and faith? Maybe I'm less likely to commit (at least certain) sins if dedicated to the little people who need their sippy cups and multiple readings of Good Night Moon? (Would be hard to be bar-hopping simultaneously, anyway; symbolic of the whole shifted lifestyle from "eyes on my own naval" to those of all the littles in play?).
I know what I was like once. I know what I've been saved from. And I do def. thank God (eternally!) for the grace to keep me busy with things and lovely people that actually matter- and that force me into a humility more useful (hopefully overall) to our Awesome Maker.
What a fun question!
(Nice to meet you, by the way! :))
Jen (of WM)

christy said...

Umm, although i don't feel smart enough to answer the question, i love the responses posted...i know my kids bless me and have changed my life and i love them than words could ever describe....i like Jewelielyn's response...never would have thought of it that way...no matter what, God's plan will prevail...:)

Laurel said...

Hey Bianca,

Haven't listened to the video yet ... need to make dinner for all the kiddos before I sit down and think theology with you. But ... have just a few thoughts on KIDS.

Being a mother is the most amazing thing in the whole wide world. It is the most difficult career God could ever call a woman to ... but the most fulfilling, as well.

While my peers are celebrating their empty nests ... I am rejoicing that I still have a full house. If I'd stopped at "only 6" kids ... I would be sitting pretty lonely this year. But, no, I have 6 more that I spend my days serving.

As for labor ... I'll come be your labor coach any day. :) Don't worry about it! The minute that precious baby is in your arms ... you won't remember a minute of the pain.

Baby #1 ... 10 hours of hard labor ... 10 lb. 1 oz. baby boy.

14 mo. later Baby #2 ...

16 mo. later Baby #3...

2 years later ... Babies # 4 & 5 (weighing in at 7.2 and 8.3 ... yes, 15.5 lb. of baby)

18 mo. later ... Baby #6

So ... 6 kids in 6 years ... and I DIDN'T STOP.

Call me CRAZY!

Children are a BLESSING, and I believe they are they only blessing that people tell God, "Uh ... sorry God ... but I really don't want that blessing. How about some more of the financial blessing?"

I'll watch the video after dinner and get back to you on the Scriptural side of things.

Hugs!

Laurel
CRAZY Mama of 13

MamaKas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MamaKas said...

Hallo Bianca! I don't want to throw around titles (blarg), but since you asked I am both youth leader & mama hence, mi nombre).

I liked what someone said about legalism... in the spirit of that thought I honestly think Paul is using the word "salvation" as an adjective, not referring to -being saved from hell- ...or that would contradict the other things Paul has said about salvation, right? Maybe?

So if we go with that hippy -free to be you and me- thinking... I would say having 2 kiddos has saved me from my own thinking, meaning it's taught me ultimate unselfishness, starting from pregnancy (vs.15) which tempered my faith, increased my love, and tested my holiness (1 Petey 1.16). That is how I interpret this verse: childbearing teaches/increases faith, love, holiness, modesty if done with those things, hence producing a type of salvation.

I'm adopted and find it is God's heart. We are indeed adopted in the Kingdom of God are we not? Jesus calls us his siblings, which is good enough for me (Mark 3.35) We know Jesus is God's son, so in a way he was adopted by earthly parents. (I could go on and on. But adoption is nothing to feel second rate about).

As for YOU being a mom. Let me tell you, where I live if you have a uterus, you're a mom (that's what it seems like here). And honestly, most aren't trying so thank God they go through having the babies instead of having a shmashmortion. And know what? They are all AMAZING moms. Even without the support of a husband. No matter what your situation it takes hard work and lots of love.

I almost disagree with an above post, they said if you have any doubt to not do it... my personality is if you think you could do it, DO IT! No one got anywhere without a little faith. It's a COMPLETE and TOTAL blessing!!! <3

p.s.
when you did that one blog with the cute little dog and mentioned being a parent... I felt like, yeah, she'd make an amazing mama. and I have a huge family too!

Renay. said...

Love the Vlog challege, B... great idea!
So, first of all, I noticed that at the end of your Vlog you said, "maybe I'll adopt" which suggests that you are not necessarily afraid of being a parent... so, is it safe to assume that you're just afraid of the pain of childbirth. YOU SISSY GIRL! I'm just kidding! ;) But is it safe to assume that this is your fear?
Well, if it is, then what I really want to do is to make my argument that will hopefully "woo" you to have many babies... afterall, you have received so many awesome theological viewpoints regarding 1Tim 2:15... GREAT JOB BLOG-READERS!
Ok, so you obviously know that I don't have children yet. And to say that I'm not at all afraid of the same physical pain that you speak of, would make me a huge liar but God does command us to "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen. 1:28). From what I understand it is our primary command. Yes, He did need us to populate the earth but if you take a look at Psalms 127 & 128, there is a deeper significance to bearing children- they are a blessing, a heritage, a reward. I think the benefits out weigh the pain, don't you? Besides, 1Tim 2:15 does say, "she will be saved in childbirth". "Saved" in this text is the Greek word "sozo" which can also be translated as preserved- to keep safe. And although, I'm sure there is a deeper spiritual meaning to the context, I want to believe that God will also preserve the life, health, sanity, body, and tolerance for pain, of those whom He loves. And if that doesn't convince you, just remember, "...perfect love casts out fear" (1Jn 4:18)!
So, how was that for "wooing"! Love you! :)

Laurel said...

Anyone else having problems with the sound on the video. Can't understand it hardly at all. Really "jumpy".

Sad. I was looking forward to listening.

Anonymous said...

I have read all of the posts on this one, so here is my take/stats.

Nothing more precious than feeling a baby move from with in, its like the touch of God from with in the womb. He knows all.

Me, married at 18, 10 mo later Baby Girl #1 Born, 4 weeks later, a call from the Doctor, you have stage one Cancer in your uterus. Yep, I remember that day like it was yesterday, so vividly. My Husband and I decided to undergo a different kind of treatment that left us with a possibility of never having another child. After 10 months of treatment, I got pregnant again, Doctors said I would not carry the Baby to term, things happened during the pregnancy that are a dream,a night mare, but Baby Girl #2 was born 20 months later after Baby Girl #1. Both of My Precious Daughters have brought me TREMENDOUS JOY knowing that they are a gift from God. Especially the Second Baby Girl. She will tell you that she has been a challenge from the start. And she loves it.
Baby #1 is special needs, she will need some one to help her all of her life, like your Uncle Ivan. She has an innocent joy all of her own. I love nothing more to her from her, I love u mommie, Ill make you coffee mommie etc. Just love her to pieces. and to see her involved in Ministry is the icing on top of my cake!
Baby#2 Is a social butterfly. Going and doing more than I ever had and ever will. Her Spirit and love captivate me. Her witting personality amaze me. Her counseling to friends causes my heart to whimper with happiness.

I remember when they were 4 and 3 yrs old. The house was messy,dinner needed to be cooked, My Love of my Life was due home any minute, but they were sitting on the stairs talking about being just like mommie!

Child Birth pains..erased the very moment I held each of my precious little gifts from God. Don't tell my Girls this, (Im sure they know already, I am very proud of them, and love them very much and am Happier than the skin off of a camels back to be their "Mom") There is no greater joy in this world than to be a Mom. No gift on this earth than to be a Mom. The only 2 things that can compare to being a Mom is 1, God love for me, 2, my Husbands, The Love of my Lifes love for me!

ap

a lily among thorns said...

Girl, you got me studying the Greek!!! I read all the previous comments. My first thought was that we would be saved by the childbearing of He would defeat satan. But this verse is the last verse to great exhortation.

The original Greek text for "saved" is sōzō which means, to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction. Another example of this word in scripture is found in 2 Timothy 4:18 for the word preserve. We can therefore conclude that Paul isn't speaking about salvation. (I'm not smart, my Greek dictionary is.)

I also looked up childbearing or bearing children, in the Greek its teknogonia (reminds me of texmex and makes me want to dance!). Teknogonia is not pregnancy or labor but the duties of motherhood.

We have to remember that when Paul wrote this part of scripture it was a whole letter. In the first chapter, we read that there were false teachers. They were stirring up troubles in the households. When I read verses 8-13 I follow along and understand that how a woman should and should not behave. But then Paul hit us with childbearing and it's like, WOHW Paul, where did that come out of?! If Paul literally meant giving birth I don't think He would have put the "disclaimer" from Genesis. I think verse 14 is put there to help us stay focused. All this to say, I believe that Paul was reminding the these women their role as women/helpmates, snce these women were getting rowdy and loosing sight of what God required of them. Paul was calling these women back to proper relations within their home. Key word: THESE. I personally believe, Paul was speaking to these specific women who were neglecting their role as childbearers. It's more a matter of, what role the Lord calling us individually to today.

The Rak-Translation: we shall be preserved in whatever role the Lord is calling us to, as we continue in faith, love, holiness and self control.
To us Single ladies, the Lord has called us to the role of singleness today so let's continue in faith, love, holiness and self control :)
my two shekels

Diandra Ann said...

okay. I skimmed over the responses...
Here is what I say. I think Biblically what my mom said is probably the best answer I could give... that we are saved by the birth of one child in particular. (isnt she smart :)

As other people mentioned... there are women who will never be married and women who cannot bear children. I don't believe that God would say you must do something you cannot do in order to be saved.

That said, doesnt the Bible also say that Jesus is the only way to God? So the act of having a child couldnt possibly be a way or the way to God... if Jesus is the only way. That again, matches up to what my mom said... that the childbirth of Jesus Christ is our salvation.

As you know, I do not have children, but I think from what I have heard from my friends, carrying a child and then holding it in your arms is one of the biggest miraccles you can witness and therefor draws you closer to God and makes you understand His love in a whole new way.

As a youth pastor, I often feel like I have 100 children of my own. I think that the way I love those kids is as close as I can get to loving a kid of my own. And I gotta tell you, I can see God in it for sure. But at the same time, much like you, it makes me question bringing my own innocent child into this corrupt world... especially when there are so many already here with no one to love them.

I will go out on a limb here and say that there will be many women in heaven who have never had a child :)

melissa said...

Oh Bianca, bianca, bianca...you just amaze me with your adorable-ness. SERIOUSLY...okay....i have had a looooong day after my debut art event and I'm am going to retire for the nite...(just had to check in cuz i love your friday vlogs!) but i'm coming back, because this very scripture ministered to me in a more personal spiritual way, theologically I think the answer is cut and dry and I know you have many answers to sift through and soak in...but I DO want to share (of course! you should know me by now! haha!)..so I'll be baaack! (in my best Arnold Schwarta-however-you-spell-it-neger voice!)Nite! Nite!

Much love,
Melissa

melissa said...

whoops - I meant to say theologically the answer is NOT cut and dry! ;) Must have been my complete lack of sleep!

The Greek translation for all salvation references are sozo, so even when it talks about being saved by grace, it's the same root word - which is why it IS confusing and NOT cut and dry!

As some referenced, sozo means to save, to rescue, to deliver, to protect. “Sozo” is also translated in the New Testament with the words to heal, preserve, save, do well, and to make whole.

So I believe sozo represents all redemptive acts and provisions of God (including salvation, acts of healing (same sozo), saving us from harm, saved from getting a speeding ticked when I was pulled over, ;) etc.)

And by confirming scripture with scripture, we know that we are saved by the blood of Jesus, saved by grace through faith not works, redemeed and justified through faith - so we do know it's not concerning salvation that allows us to enter heaven.

So THIS passage...well as you say, context, context, context. I agree with it being more about role of women...we know they are in Ephesus (1;3), and do you remember Ephesus is a city where they all worship the goodess, Diana. And in this letter, Paul references women quite a bit, how their conduct and role needed to be, because it was not biblical. So I don't think Paul is saying have a child and be saved! So don't be guilted into have a kid!!! ;)But because women were struggling with leadership OVER men (1 Tim 2:11-12...it was a problem and Paul was addressing it...) they were doing that instead of what God has called them to do - remain steadfast to the role God gave them as wives/mothers. God called them to be faithful in that. As a single woman, God will call you to be faithful in what He is leading you to do...and KEEPING to that call is what keeps you safe (sozo), focused on the Lord.

I ***think*** that's what it means! haha!

I'm sorry - I am passionate about studying the scripture and I talk/write a lot! I haven't even gotten to MY point...forgive me?!
Well when I read this portion of scripture, it really ministered to me in a different way. Particularly AS a wife and mama. As I have mentioned here, my marriage has had bigtime struggles and God is faithfully restoring us. But we had those struggles in part because I put my career and the leadership I had in a strongly secular environment (music industry) as a priority. I left my home (emotionally, spiritually, physically). I was putting all that before my husband and my children. I WASN'T doing what God called me to do and I WASN'T where God called me to be. I was also a leader over my husband at home...I didn't allow Him to lead as God has called him...so there was much strife and hardship. But NOW God is saving (sozo!) my marriage...and for a season (or maybe a lifetime) he called ME out of the workforce and to be at home...doing what He called me to do...NOT because all women must stay home, but because MY struggle is quite honestly, not being the wife/mom God wants me to be. And my children and my husband have suffered as a result...I am being humbled and tested and for now, my home is my ministry and my "training center".

Everyone has their own story of how God uses the scripture to reprove us and edify us...this is just my story...not anything I would expect of anyone else...because our God is so personal that He speaks to us and ministers in the just the right areas!

I love your heart Bianca! Keep seeking the word! Proverbs 2:1-10

- melissa

Michelle said...

Geez Bianca! You have quite a little theological cohort here!! ;) A lily among thorns totally impressed me with her "tiny sermon!" Dang! And Melissa freaked me out a little when she said the theological answer was "cut and dry." hahaha!! Love this vlog... and all the comments.

Anonymous said...

haha! michelle - i freaked out when i read what i wrote too! I kinda did a george simpson, "Doh!" guess i should rethink posting when i haven't had much sleep in the last few days! haha! it's funny the difference 3 little letters make! i do love seeing everyone's comments and perspectives, too! ;)
- melissa

Bianca said...

All I have to say is this is awesome! I love that this is like a ghetto-bird version of seminary.

I LOVE the research and insights. THIS is true learning for me... you all are amazing!!!

xoxo

Krystle Hummer said...

I have been learning that in most areas in my life, selfishness and pride are in the way of what God has called me to do. As a woman God has given me examples and commands of how I am supposed to live. I was created to be my husbands helper. (Gen 2:18) My main sphere of work is to be at home (Prov 31) Children are a blessing from the Lord and Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! (Psalm 127:5)

Personally...I LOVE pregnancy, labor delivery...the whole thing. It is such an awesome testament to how wonderful and creative God is in his creation. The wonder that our bodies were designed to hold a baby and then push is out without our telling it to is awesome. The feeling of life moving inside of you is indescribable. The joy of feeling a baby kick your tummy is fabulous. And the relief and joy that come from labor pain and hard work can only come from the One who created us. Then after that He will give us the grace and direction to raise up this blessing that he has given to us for such a short time, especially if you are willing to follow what he has clearly outlined in His Word how a family unit should function.

Agaperabba Entertainment said...

Hi Bianca,

This was a head turner for me because some are reading it as we "only" become saved thru childbearing. I don't believe that is what the scripture is trying to say. You would have to go down a long list of women that are infertile, ill, or just unable to bear a child...me be one of them.

As far as your fear of bearing a child...give it to God! 1Jn4:18 says that there is no fear in love. I think that if and when you are ready to take that step, you will have the love in your heart as well as the strength and comfort knowing that God is in full control of the situation.

I pray that no matter what the choice, that your have an overwhelming since of peace.

jennyduffyphoto said...

Hi Bianca! I want to share my own experience with you in birthing my twin girls. The delivery of my girls was the single most spiritual experience I've had thus far in my life!
I sincerely understand what Paul was implying when he said a woman can be saved through child bearing. I already knew Jesus at the time my twins arrived, but I use my child birth experience as a reference in my life all of the time! I also share my story with others (non believers)...so it could be possible that Paul is talking about women being saved through the example of other women bearing children....I don't know...just a thought :)
Twin pregnancy is high risk to begin with and I had high blood pressure as well. I was put on bed rest from 21 weeks until the girls were full term (36weeks) I also had a very active 18 month old son running around.
There were so many things to worry about... my girls coming too early, wanting desperately to have a natural child birth, not being able to keep up with my son as well as anticipating the pain of child birth :)
I specifically remember one day getting myself up out of bed, raising my hands up to my father and saying "take it God, I'm giving you all my worries!"
The babies ended up in the right position for me to deliver naturally with no c-section. This is really rare today! They were born at exactly 36 weeks to the day, and they came out breathing on their own and pink and healthy!
The one thing that stays with me the most about my entire experience is that I stayed focused on the Lord during my labor....rebuking the pain in the name of Jesus and experienced almost no pain, but most of all I could feel the prayers of the people praying for me at our little church in Portland, Maine.
Words cannot describe how much I felt the presence of the spirit in my delivery room and the incredible amount of peace and care I received from God during this scary time....I mean, this is my children we were talking about!
This experience serves as a reminder for me how much my God loves me and wants the best for me in His name!!!! I'm so thankful that I have the experience to draw strength from and to share with others :)
It's about surrendering your worries to Him. Bringing children into this sinful world is terrifying. We cannot do it successfully on our own. Let Him guide you! Doing things in this life that we cannot do on our own are just another opportunity to grow closer to our mighty God. I look at childbearing that way and I think Paul did too :)
I think it's so great you're exploring and looking for advice BEFORE you have kids. You will be blessed for it!

Raquel Leal said...

Conceiving, giving birth and having a child is an experience that truly cannot be expressed through words. Being a new mom, I can say that I now understand the meaning of unconditional love.

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